Evolving Past the Guru: Creating Community in Modern Spiritual Practices with Sabrina Marie Chase

Evolving Past the Guru Creating Community in Modern Spiritual Practices with Sabrina Marie Chase

[00:00:00] Sabrina Marie Chase: My father was like the most practical white guy ever. He used to say to me and my mom who loved spirituality and everything having to do with spirit and paranormal, he used to say. Sabrina, don't be afraid of the dead ones. It's the live ones that are gonna get ya.

[00:00:22] Jessica Paschke: For centuries, spiritual wisdom has been passed down from the mountaintop.

[00:00:26] From the guru, the priest, the charismatic teacher who claimed to have all the answers. But what if the answers were never meant to come from one person alone? What if wisdom was always meant to be something that we built together? In a time of uncertainty when old leadership models are breaking down, a new kind of spiritual guidance is emerging, one that isn't about mastery and isolation, but really about the wisdom shared in community.

[00:00:50] So the question isn't just who is the teacher, it's how do we all participate in wisdom building.[00:01:00]

[00:01:01] Your journey to the divine is an intimate exploration of self, where you are both the seeker and the source of enlightenment. I, Jessica Paschke, invite you to break free from the ordinary, to reforge your spiritual path with courage, curiosity, and audacity. Unleash the power of your spiritual connection, stepping into a purpose driven life free of have tos and shoulds.

[00:01:25] Join me on this profound exploration of rediscovery, where you'll not only redefine your own spiritual practice, but also inspire a collective awakening. Welcome to Reclaiming Our Spirit.

[00:01:42] Welcome, welcome, welcome back to Reclaiming Our Spirit. We are diving into more of the Hermit. And this idea that we're shifting from the hermit as a seeker, a guru on the mountain, to this idea of the sun and that joy of shared insight. And with [00:02:00] me today is Sabrina Marie Chase, who has been thinking a lot about how spirit workers in 2025 can evolve past that idea of a solo journey and into something much greater together.

[00:02:13] So, Welcome. Welcome. I'm so excited you're here.

[00:02:17] Sabrina Marie Chase: I'm delighted beyond measure, especially to talk with someone else who's geeky and wonderful with tarot. So let's go.

[00:02:26] Jessica Paschke: Let's do this. We met actually when I was guesting on her podcast, and we hit it off right away because tarot is our shared love language.

[00:02:34] And so, so this was like a no brainer for me to have you on. I'm, I'm as excited as you to geek out with the tarot right now. Um, before we jump in though, can you just tell us a little bit about you and like what your work is rooted in?

[00:02:49] Sabrina Marie Chase: Absolutely. Absolutely. So I am a biracial, bicultural person. My mother was born in San Jose, Costa Rica, and my dad was born [00:03:00] in Western Kansas.

[00:03:01] So I grew up in a household that was really interesting and diverse. My father was like the most practical white guy ever. He used to say to me and my mom who loved spirituality and everything having to do with spirit and paranormal, he used to say, Sabrina, don't be afraid of the dead ones. It's the live ones that are going to get you.

[00:03:26] That's so true. But my mom had came with this huge spiritual background, her family, my family on her side is very spiritually oriented with esoteric practitioners. Both of them were educators, even my grandmother. And at that time in Latin America, that was really unusual for a woman to be so educated. So, I grew up in this house with magical realism, folk magical practices that my mom just engaged in from her childhood, and I saw my first tarot reading when I was five or six.

[00:03:59] Really? I [00:04:00] love that. I did, and my mother was in graduate school at that time, and she brought over a friend and colleague, Victor, from Mexico, and he did a full tarot reading, and I was a little kid, and I didn't understand what I was having, but I was utterly Fascinated. And that never left me. And so when I was in high school in Stillwater, Oklahoma, and I was looking through a bookstore that was near the university and I found my first deck of tarot cards and they were the Marseilles deck, the French woodcuts deck.

[00:04:32] And I actually didn't think they were very pretty. But something in me said, you have to buy them. And I did with some of my own little money. And then I press that started a lifelong, passionate relationship with Tarot. I have been more faithful to Tarot than I have been to any other relationship in my life.

[00:04:54] And that was like over 40 years ago. And I just threw myself into it. I [00:05:00] didn't really have. Teachers, I had like one book that I checked out of the university library. Why the university library had Z Budapest's Book of Women Mysteries Part Two, I do not know. But there was a chapter on tarot and mostly I taught myself over the years by obsessively doing readings, taking notes and comparing what happened in my life and the life of my friends I read for.

[00:05:25] Over the last 40 years, I've ended up developing my own system that's rooted in that sort of bi cultural magical realism. And today, I consider myself a diviner. I love that. So how do you define

[00:05:37] Jessica Paschke: diviner?

[00:05:39] Sabrina Marie Chase: Okay. A diviner is a skilled practitioner whose primary goal is to help their person, their questioner, to align themselves better with spirit and their highest good.

[00:05:51] And what that means is they've got probably years, maybe even decades of experience. And instead of sitting there [00:06:00] thinking, what exactly does this card mean and how do, how do I do this? That's second nature. They have those as the foundation. What they're doing is they're saying, how can I use all of my skills and knowledge, everything, my expertise in tarot, but also my expertise in facilitation.

[00:06:19] In whatever tradition I'm trained in, shamanism, Buddhism, coaching, how can I bring those things to the table to help the human being in front of me align better with spirit and their highest good or highest self so that they can listen to this work we're going to do together, this deep dive into their life I'm going to do with tarot and work with me to find the pivot points in their future of least resistance.

[00:06:47] Transcribed Where they can shift and choose something different that's more aligned with their true mission and their true path.

[00:06:54] Jessica Paschke: See, I love that. That is how I work with tarot as well. It's this tool for [00:07:00] evolution and growth. And rather than, you know, locking us into a set system, it should allow us to expand.

[00:07:09] and become more of who we are. From the moment we started chatting, I knew y'all, I knew. So we actually were having a phone conversation and we started chatting about the hermit being the card for the year. I don't even know how we got onto that. What really came out in the conversation was this idea that, you know, the hermit, and we talked about this in the previous episode where, you know, the visual, the illustrations is typically posed on a mountain.

[00:07:42] Uh, by themselves with a staff and a light. And they are going off on like this lone journey into the cave to the mountaintop. They're removing themselves from everything around them to find the quiet, to get the downloads, right. To get that, that spiritual thing. [00:08:00] But this idea of like the traditional guru model doesn't really work in anymore.

[00:08:07] Does it? It's, it's not jiving with where we are in this moment. And I'm like wondering. You know, in our conversation, we were talking about how the guru actually needs to be able to, to not be a guru anymore. It needs to evolve and needs to be in community rather than by themselves. So rather than that spiritual knowledge coming from.

[00:08:29] Solitude and mastery or this hierarchy or this singular authority or this source of truth. It actually needs to evolve. Do you want to talk a little bit about the evolution of the hermit? Absolutely. Because it's so required right now in this moment.

[00:08:48] Sabrina Marie Chase: Absolutely. And I also want to point out that you talked in the last episode about the wheel of fortune, which is really prescient because the coming together of the hermit in the time [00:09:00] with the wheel of fortune is brings us to now.

[00:09:02] And I know we'll talk about that more later, but first I wanted to say the hermit is an incredibly important card and I specialize in these 90 minute, two hour recorded deep dives with people. And when the hermit comes up very often, my clients are like, this might be a little scary, less so now, because I read for so many change agents.

[00:09:26] The majority of my practice now is spiritual practitioners and leaders and change agents. So less now than ever, but the hermit really talks about. Looking within and doing a deep and searching inventory of self and also when the Herman looks out in the world, often they look in what can I do? What can I learn externally to support what I am learning about myself by looking within?

[00:09:53] So hermit periods in people's lives, they end up doing research into. Uh, [00:10:00] therapies, research, and they might figure out about their attachment style and relationships. They look to soak up those pieces that can help them understand themselves and grow in wisdom. And it can feel kind of lonely. It does often begin in a way that's kind of isolated.

[00:10:20] And that's built into the first part of this. So sometimes I'll work with people and they'll be like, I don't want to be doing work alone, looking at myself. I want to be with people, which is very understandable. And I think that. In its first stages, the hermit is all inward looking and looking for support resources.

[00:10:40] But then that hermit needs to grow and turn their eyes outward. And what we are being asked to do, I believe, in this particular moment in time, which is all about the turning wheel of change, is to begin to come together. With all of this wisdom, with this capacity to go [00:11:00] within and this capacity to draw on resources to help us understand more deeply and begin exchanging teachings and wisdom and intuitions with each other.

[00:11:11] That's really important. And that's how we started talking about how can the hermit come together with the sun, which is very much about harmonious community, harmonious communication amongst different individuals in order to create something just and harmonious and beautiful. And that's particularly relevant because as we were discussing a little bit earlier before we began.

[00:11:39] It's really a place now where we're looking at the tower. These are tower times, as I think Byron Ballard originally posed a few years ago. And the hermit in the tower, in my opinion, needs to go right into community, create community, and we need to support each other, exchange wisdom, and grow through [00:12:00] this together.

[00:12:00] Yes,

[00:12:01] Jessica Paschke: 100%. Those tower moments, those uncertain times. require us to go within, right? We can't look to an external system or an external thing to support us. We have to go within. And in that process of going within, we can't become disconnected from those around us. And that's the trick, isn't it? How do I go within?

[00:12:23] How do I navigate the tower times, the uncertain times and stay connected because it's that connection with other people. Is the thing that's going to help us all move forward. Exactly. I think that that's challenge for seekers, for practitioners, for change makers is, okay, great. I want to deepen my wisdom and I want to be in community.

[00:12:50] And how do we do that? And we were talking about the Hermit and the Sun, actually, when we combine those two cards, how that can kind of give us [00:13:00] a little bit more information about how to navigate this. You want to talk a little bit about, about that relationship with the Hermit and the Sun?

[00:13:10] Sabrina Marie Chase: Yes. And I'm also gonna, I'm going to go through a journey.

[00:13:14] I think it's a journey. I don't think it's immediately the hermit wakes up and says, Oh yeah, I need to be in community now. Bang. That's not how it works. It's an, it's a slow evolution and I do believe the hermit needs to begin alone looking inward, but there's a progression. So I'm going to borrow a progression that I've been working with the last few months.

[00:13:36] And that's the journey from the tower to the sun. I love it. So you already introduced this last episode with the wheel, the wheel of fortune and change. So now at this time, when we speak it's January, 2025, this is in fact, the first day of the Chinese new year, the year of the snake, which is all about change and transformation.

[00:13:59] And we are [00:14:00] transforming on a national level and a global level. At an accelerated rate. I think it's not too much to say that many of us are disoriented, deeply uncertain. So your work with uncertainty is very timely. And we just don't know what's going to happen, but at every level, national for many states at the state level and at the local level, it's the tower.

[00:14:27] We're deeply uncertain. So what does the hermit do in tower times to make that journey towards the sun? I think the first thing the hermit does is look to the next card after the tower, which is the star. Because once the tower comes down, it clears the way for things that aren't sustainable. It clears away what won't work.

[00:14:47] As it stands, and then in the rubble, in the new spaces that are created. The first thing you do is you look to spirit, to God, to the divine, however you call it, whatever your [00:15:00] word for that force of divine spark that guides us, you look to the star and you open up all your senses and you ask for guidance in whatever way works for you and you look around.

[00:15:13] For the star to answer, for the universe to answer you and say this way, this way, here's a tidbit, here's another step, come here, come here. So the hermit, in my view, first starts by walking out from the rubble, or amongst the rubble, by following the star in tarot. Getting that inspiration and that sort of leads them forward.

[00:15:34] We're really geeking here and the next card is the moon. So where's the next stop? The moon is going into your subconscious, your unconscious, your intuition, which is going to feel familiar to the hermit. Cause they've been doing that kind of work earlier, right? So you're going to take this external inspiration from spirit, look inside themselves and the work of the moon is.

[00:15:57] To discern real [00:16:00] intuitive hits, which should be coming right now from things you're afraid of and things that you long for and projecting. So the work of the moon is I'm going to really pay attention to my dreams. I'm going to really pay attention to the little voice that just pops up. I'm really going to pay attention to someone sitting next to me on the subway that discusses a book I desperately need to read.

[00:16:22] And I'm going to go with my intuitions when something says, no, turn here at this corner. And you're like, why? Uh, the place I need to go, I can get to sooner if I cross the street, no turn, do the thing, do the thing. Have faith. And discerning those moments of true intuition from moments where you're hearing not with your ears, but with your fears.

[00:16:47] Oh my God. I love that.

[00:16:49] Jessica Paschke: Not with your ears, but with your fears. And when you're in tower times, when you're in uncertain times. There is fear. That's a normal human reaction, so it's not something we want to [00:17:00] ignore, but we've really got to figure out, like, okay, what am I choosing to lead by? What am I choosing to, like, I've got this fear, it's telling me something, my anxiety management system is all fired up, and, and, how do I tune into what I know to be true and, and find a nice balance to those?

[00:17:21] Sabrina Marie Chase: Absolutely. You are right on with this.

[00:17:23] Jessica Paschke: Yeah. And the moon is such an interesting card. You know, I always think of it like, well, how do things look in the moonlight? It's not that it's dark. It's not that it's, there's a lack of light. I mean, anyone with a full moon that shines in their bedroom window at night will tell you it's not a lack of light.

[00:17:43] But everything looks different in moonlight and sometimes there are a little bit more shadows that come up. There are a little bit more uncertainty, a little more second guessing, but it's still illuminating something. It's still showing you something that you need to be seen [00:18:00] before you can step into the sun, right?

[00:18:03] Before you can step into full daylight. I always get this kind of water like quality too with the moon where you're like underneath the water and there's that distorted, like you can see things, but they're not quite the way you would see them if you were like above the waterline. Right. I mean, always that, like you said, the ears and the fears, there's that disorientation that happens with the moon, whether we want it to or not, but we are drawing on, I love how you brought up the star.

[00:18:30] We're drawing on the hope of the star, the light of the star to get, to, to lead us through. And remember that star happens at night. We don't see it in the day. There's a reason why it's the star and not something else. It pulls us through. It's what we kind of draw from when we're in the moon before we go into the sun.

[00:18:52] And I think it's a necessary thing. Oh, times are crazy out there. I never want to bypass and say just [00:19:00] Tune it out. And I feel like we sort of have to go

[00:19:05] Sabrina Marie Chase: through this in order to grow. There are so many spirit workers that I'm working with who are saying that exact same thing. This is what we have to do in order to grow, not deny it, acknowledge, be there, work with our, our responses of disorientation and fear and sadness, work with those things and move through them,

[00:19:28] Jessica Paschke: move through

[00:19:28] Sabrina Marie Chase: them.

[00:19:29] Yeah. And

[00:19:30] Jessica Paschke: move through them. I wish it could be different. I can have that wish and know that it's not, but here we are. And this is what we're working with. And I think understanding the key then is understanding what it is, what we're working with so that we can embrace these things are normal. These things are, this is normal, not normal in what's happening, but our response to them, the panic, the fear, that's a normal response.

[00:19:57] How do we keep navigating towards that? [00:20:00] And like, so then the sun comes next, right? Yes. Yay.

[00:20:04] Sabrina Marie Chase: Yes. We move into the sun and we take with us everything we've got and everything includes the Hope the inspiration, everything we've learned in the hermit, all our resources. And it also includes the fears, the disorientation and the worry, along with some tools, hopefully to management.

[00:20:26] We take all of that into the sun, into community. And we are all there with whole as whole beings, with all parts of them. And in that space, clearly acknowledging what is true, what we love and what we wish weren't true, we begin helping each other move to a more transformative level of who we are, and we begin building harmonious community in ways that can, over a long arc of time,

[00:20:53] Jessica Paschke: Change the world, and it is an arc of time.

[00:20:57] It's not going to be immediate. So [00:21:00] how do people who are specifically the mission driven changemakers, like, I want to make a difference in this world. I see what's happening. I want it to be different for future generations. How do we balance that need for that individual reflection, that individual tug that the hermit gives us, and, and the growth that comes from that inwardness with the call to connect.

[00:21:23] With others and to create something greater, which is the sun, essentially. How do we do that? How do

[00:21:30] Sabrina Marie Chase: we balance that? So I have an answer, but I'm not sure everyone's going to like it.

[00:21:36] Jessica Paschke: That means it's a good answer.

[00:21:38] Sabrina Marie Chase: Okay. So I really believe that there are a number of steps that we take, and I believe it begins solo with the hermit moves through this process I've described and ends up in the sun community.

[00:21:53] You start by listening inside yourself, listening for the voice of spirit, [00:22:00] God, the divine, God's whatever words you use. And for me, that often happens right when I wake up in the morning that I will get messages, urges, phrases. We listen and we don't dismiss them. The work of the hermit is to listen what emerges from within and listening.

[00:22:20] Often that will lead us to new things, often new practices. What do I mean by that? I mean, practices of daily life who over time change who we are. A dear friend of mine taught me a saying transformation only happens in action. April Tarot, my cohost on grounded magic. And she's right. So you take that inspiration, you follow it, and it will often lead you to practices, which could be as simple as five minutes of quiet breathing a day, or you know what?

[00:22:54] I'm feeling a lot of uncertainty. I'm going to just start writing that down in a private blog or in a [00:23:00] private notebook, or feel so much better when I do 10 minutes of yoga. The practice doesn't have to be every single day, but it needs to become something consistent. That's an anchor and a ground. Just engaging in that practice or practices moving us forward and staying open to the messages will begin the transformation process.

[00:23:23] And here's where I think community and the sun balances it comes in. It is super hard for most individuals to maintain a practice or a change without some form of the A word. Accountability, and accountability happens with other humans and other allies, most of whom are human. In my opinion, a great way to do this balancing is you do the first steps yourself.

[00:23:53] You enter into, you identify your own mission, your own practices. And then you gather with [00:24:00] others to affirm each other, to listen to each other, to share what we know, but also clearly and concretely to keep each other accountable for what you say you're gonna do and what you're here to do in your particular calling, your mission.

[00:24:18] That's my opinion, but it's often a little more work than people wanna initially embrace. It's

[00:24:26] Jessica Paschke: more work, but it's needed. We need different points of view. We need different ways of seeing things. We need to understand how the world outside of ourselves is unfolding. And when we bring our introspections, our personal internal practice, like the hermit has us do into a group situation, it can't help but evolve.

[00:24:50] We can't help but see the bigger picture. We can't help to have more ahas, more, oh my gosh. I'm connecting this, this makes sense. The way that you said [00:25:00] this makes sense. The way that you said that makes sense. What you're moving through, I identify with. It makes sense. I understand that. I see that. And we have to have, like you said, that mirror of people around us to understand ourselves more fully.

[00:25:15] And yet up until this point, mainstream spirituality has us moving away from the community aspect and into the Go meditate, go be by yourself, figure out what you need, figure out what, it's very eye centric. Yes. And there needs to be more. We need to bring this community element back, especially I think when people have this idea of like, there's a spiritual guru, we're looking to the spiritual guru, they're going to have all the answers.

[00:25:44] No one has all the answers. Spoiler alert. No one has all the answers. True that. And you're attempting to do something different. By bringing in people, [00:26:00] practitioners, mission driven entrepreneurs, you're wanting to bring them together in a focal point, which I think is really interesting to expand how we're all thinking.

[00:26:12] Yes. And can you talk a little bit about that and what is your why? I'm fascinated by the why, people's whys. So what is your why? What's driving you there? Like we know the hermit needs the sun, the sun needs the hermit, but why that expression of it?

[00:26:27] Sabrina Marie Chase: I'm going to give a tiny bit of history, and then I'm going to talk about the now, because those are different.

[00:26:33] So, my background includes many decades of Wicca, my spiritual background, Wicca, the sort of syncretic Catholicism from my mom, Buddhist training, and a core shamanism training, all those things. But when I was younger, that was the time period when people who entered into some kind of magical training or spiritually magical practice were hit over the [00:27:00] head in almost every book and in almost every situation with the phrase, it's all about your intentions.

[00:27:07] Your intentions are what really matter. I'm not going to say that there wasn't truth there. There is. But having now spent over 40 years in spiritual and magical communities, I'm going to tell you right now that part of that's a lie.

[00:27:25] Jessica Paschke: Okay, it is. I think I know where this is going.

[00:27:27] Sabrina Marie Chase: It's not just all about intention.

[00:27:29] Intention is important. Certainly, when you're developing magical practice, when you're doing your own transformative or, or magical work in the world, intention is really important. But if you want to sustain transformation, you need an accountability mechanism to do it. Intention without accountability and a structure.

[00:27:49] Okay. We're going to geek more here. Bring in the emperor because what's the upright emperor really good at in the best practice? Structure. Positive structure. We're going to put that [00:28:00] structure in all those brilliant, creative ideas, you've got all that inspiration. You can't do them all. If you try to do all 20, you're going to fall on your face.

[00:28:08] So I, the emperor will give you the structure that says pick two and measure. So inspiration and intention have to be paired with accountability. And that is something I learned over and over as a university professor, as a writer, All of that, you know, I'm that the book I wrote never would have come out without accountability.

[00:28:30] So I'm going to tell you that's

[00:28:32] Jessica Paschke: the personal piece. And can I say, I agree with you. That's why I think it's important that when we talk about intentions, we talk about the idea of the practice of intentionality, the practice of, and I think you have to combine it with owning your impact. Wow. I love that.

[00:28:49] Tell me more. Well, you can have the best of intentions. But it may not, it may impact in ways that you didn't understand or you didn't foresee. [00:29:00] So we can have these intentions. And I think this is where the spiritual world struggles a little bit. We can have these intentions in, and we'll tie it back to the hermit in our, in our solo practice.

[00:29:10] This is our intention. We can even have a practice of intentionality. And then we need to like, think about that ripple out. How is this going to impact? Not just myself, but people around me. Yeah. And, and if it does impact in ways I didn't foresee, then how do I navigate that? And how do I work with that?

[00:29:28] Because when we go from that solo practice to the sun, all of a sudden there are other people we have to think about beyond ourselves. We have to think about like, not are we just rippling out and how do I make this meditation so that I find inner peace? How do I make this whatever, but how does this impact those around me?

[00:29:46] Absolutely. Yep. And I love that you brought the emperor into it because the emperor. You know, when you flip it over, people are like, Oh, the emperor, there's like a lot of meetings with the emperor

[00:29:56] Sabrina Marie Chase: and the negative emperor is really scary,

[00:29:59] Jessica Paschke: [00:30:00] toxic, very toxic. It's just kind of classic toxic leader. But that structure is so important.

[00:30:06] There's a reason why it's included in the arcana is because we need that, we need that structure. And so I love that you bring up that intentions just aren't, it can't just be about intentions. We have to have something that we put our hands on, that we do, that we touch, that we bring into the world, that we make it come alive in real life.

[00:30:26] And I just Exactly. I love that.

[00:30:29] Sabrina Marie Chase: Yeah. So historically, for me, my why is rooted in hell no. It's not just intentions and just intentions doesn't lead to ongoing transformative action. It has to be accountability. When I work with people, I'm here to bring in spirit. I'm doing deep dive readings with them.

[00:30:50] But I want to link it as quickly as possible to concrete actions and structure. And so when people work with me, it's 90 minutes or two [00:31:00] hours, they get a transcript, they get a recording and I give them homework. I do homework. I think actually one of the reasons that almost like 90 percent of my, my practice now is change agents and spirit driven people is because.

[00:31:14] I drove everybody away by assigning them homework. I love homework. Yeah. So that's one piece, but I have another why, and the why has to do with the star. I've known for a while, like I think many of us, That big change is coming and I really feel, okay, I'm going to sound a little crazy woo here and I'm going to own that.

[00:31:39] It is my personal belief that if you were born into this period now, particularly as someone with a kind of spiritual inclination or practice, however you identify, yogi, Buddhist, Wicca, Magician, however, I think that if you came in now, you came in on [00:32:00] purpose to do a job, that you have a job, that there's a team you're supposed to be on right now.

[00:32:07] And my team is educate and support people and empower them. But somebody else's team might be, I'm going to be involved in activism around. This issue or that issue, somebody else's team might be, I'm going to create safe spaces outside the United States for people who decide they want to leave temporarily, permanently, or someone else might say, you know what, my mission, I came in here to work on women's health through a difficult time for women's health, whatever, we need all the teams, all the teams are good.

[00:32:42] I think that you and me and a whole bunch of people who identify as spiritual workers were literally born for these times, and here it is, and now we're going to do this work, so let's get up and create the containers in which we can empower each [00:33:00] other, work together, and get her done. Mm

[00:33:03] Jessica Paschke: hmm. And all of us have to be present to do that.

[00:33:06] Yes, just one of us and that flavor of team isn't enough. We have to have everybody who has their little zone of genius, their, their pull, their tug, right? Coming in together and working as a collective cohesively. Yes, because singularly we can only get so far. Correct. Correct. You're reimagining what that coming together looks like.

[00:33:33] And I find it fascinating because you're intentionally pulling people from different areas, different, like regional, like actual physical areas. Yes, yes, pulling them from different regions to come together, to create, uh, and actually participate in kind of an experiment, I would call it, because you're not really sure what this looks like, but you know that you have to do it.

[00:33:59] Which I [00:34:00] love. I think a lot of life is experimenting and staying curious. And seeing what happens and then adjusting course when needed. Right? And so you're having this experiment. You want to talk a little bit about like what is happening there and like, yes, I would, you know, it might work and unfold.

[00:34:16] Sabrina Marie Chase: I do.

[00:34:17] But I also want to tell you, I can't really take credit for bringing together the people of different regions. The piece I did, the only piece I did was say, I'm here, I'm listening. Tell me what to do. That's what I did. And starting in December, me and a whole heck of a lot of people, including you, as I listened to your episode, your last several episodes, got the message.

[00:34:40] There's going to be a lot of change and you need to do, you need to prepare for that. And what I got were, was the phrase you were born for these times and spirit literally introduced me to a number of people, including you. That helped me shape this experiment, and this is what the experiment looks like.

[00:34:58] Three people were brought to me from [00:35:00] different parts of the country, and the four of us are holding an online retreat. It's free because we don't want any barriers for people to come in. It's called From Tower to Sun. You were born for these times. We have a limited number of slots just because there's a limit to what we can handle technologically and in terms of our experience.

[00:35:21] But each person is inviting people from each region of the country to come. And we are combining our different expertises. For me, it's divination. For Michaela Daystar, she's a Reiki master and it's embodiment Reiki self care. For Kati Twilight, it's astrology. She's bringing in her ability to teach about the astrology of 2025 and how people can align to it and how they can use their own charts for maximizing their transformational potential.

[00:35:57] And it's Beverly Evans [00:36:00] who was active in the first wave of feminism and who spent her life doing Um, work on equality for women and men and who's a therapist and she's going to help people really acknowledge, listen to sit with and work through their feelings of disorientation and fear and pain. It's a two day online retreat.

[00:36:24] You were born for these times and I'm giving you the link for it and we don't know what's going to happen. We're very different facilitators. We each have different and complimentary skills. And we've worked out a structure, we've created a structure complete with a model, a map, tools to help people, and a community within which to start out and flourish.

[00:36:52] We are providing all of these things, including, I was very insistent on, offering people assistance to [00:37:00] organize their own accountability groups. If there's not a concrete application of a piece of magic and accountability, I don't want anything to do with it. Agreed.

[00:37:10] Jessica Paschke: Agreed. I'm always like, all right, what action are you going to take now?

[00:37:12] What are you going to do? Are you going to make this go further? You were born for these times. That is a perception shift that I love, like a perspective that just rather than Oh my God, we're in these times. You were born for this, like the purpose behind that. Yes. And I feel like that's the thing that carries us through.

[00:37:33] That's almost like the star embodied. You were born for these times. How can you be a light for someone else? Right. If you intentionally chose to be here at this time, and I do, I do believe that there are moments where there are these waves that come, waves of people, because we've made choices, y'all.

[00:37:56] We've made choices. I've talked about this before. When you make a choice, [00:38:00] The energy has to play out. We have been making choices for thousands and thousands of years, and the energy is playing out in this moment. And so yes, if we're looking at it on an energetic level, if we're looking at on a woo level, which I'm okay with doing.

[00:38:15] We knew this was coming, we knew this was coming or it was very likely if it wasn't set in stone, it was very likely because of all the choices we've made from all of the thousands of years have led to this moment and that energy has to play out. I think that we need to be starting to plant the seed of a different way forward.

[00:38:32] We need to be making different choices different now because then that energy will be the thing that plays out. And we cannot do that alone. We cannot do that alone. We have to get that momentum, to get that movement forward. We have to do it together.

[00:38:49] Sabrina Marie Chase: Okay, what you just said, those last three sentences, for me, encapsulates exactly why we're here, what we're doing, and what these times and spirit [00:39:00] asks of us, right

[00:39:01] Jessica Paschke: there.

[00:39:02] And you know what I think is the hardest part about that? We may not be alive in this body, To see our work come to fruition. It's like the ultimate. Yes. Yeah. Ultimate. I believe. Yes.

[00:39:16] Sabrina Marie Chase: Yes. I think you're right. I've been listening to a Buddhist teacher, Norma Wong, who is an activist and teacher in Hawaii.

[00:39:25] Another lovely podcast that she was on. She was interviewed. I wish I could remember the name of the podcast. It's really great. It's about. I think it's called surviving the end of the world or something like that. Um, and she, she's indigenous. And she said, look, I only do work now that is, comes from, is sprung from an indigenous core.

[00:39:45] And every human being walking this earth, whatever, however they identify, they came from indigenous people at one time. Everyone. And the arc of time in indigenous cultures is different thinking 100 years ahead, 150 years ahead, [00:40:00] seven generations and looking backward, backward to the horizon saying, okay, I come from generations of people.

[00:40:07] So in those cultures, when you think about change, you think in terms of generations. And she said, I only work in a hundred year arc or more, and that's what I've adopted. And that's kind of what I was told years ago. When I was working with the Griffins Grove School of Shamanism with Carolyn Kenner, I had a number of visions, and one was The one that really said you and so many other people were born for these times.

[00:40:32] Each of you is going to do very specific individual work. You can't tell each other what that is. You can put people in a structure where they discover it for themselves, which is what we're going to try to do with our retreat. We're not going to try to tell them. But it's this that's really critical and know this.

[00:40:48] You will not see the fruit of your work fully or even in its majority for three generations. Which means, I won't live to see it, [00:41:00] and that's okay, I'll see the beginnings, I'll see the sprouts. And I'm gonna think, in a hundred year arc, and I'm gonna do my work with confidence. Cause I really eat my own cooking, and when spirit says do the thing, it's gonna take a hundred years?

[00:41:16] Okay, let's go. You put your finger right on it, Jessica, right on it.

[00:41:23] Jessica Paschke: We have to start sometime. We have to start sometime and I think that that's the way that we keep hope because it can be really discouraging and I think that's why we need community because we need that discouragement will get passed around, right?

[00:41:43] Somebody else in that will have hope. My husband did search and rescue and survival training when he was working. And he had talked about this idea of when people are in the water, if they find themselves in the water, they create a circle [00:42:00] and they take turns kicking because at some point someone will get tired, but the others will keep the one who's tired afloat.

[00:42:07] And yeah, and they all alternate so that no one goes under holding hands connected in a circle. So that no one goes under and that gives that person a moment to like, if they're discouraged, if they're whatever, they get a moment of respite and then they come back in because they're going to support the person who then across the circle, maybe can't kick anymore, can't stay above water, but together they all stay above water.

[00:42:32] If they were to separate and let go, they would all go under. And I think that that's kind of this idea of what community is, is it's not optional. People have known that it's not optional, but. History. We can go on. I could go off on a tangent on that. It has become something that is optional. Now we're moving into this is not optional.

[00:42:51] We have to do this together. We have to. We're not just connected energetically to Source or Unity or the One. [00:43:00] We are here to bring that connectedness to Earth, to see it in physical form, to touch it to whatever, it is not optional. We have tried the optional community thing and it has got us here. Here's not great y'all.

[00:43:15] If you haven't, you looked out your window recently. There are beautiful things about here and then there are things that are painful and unsustainable happening in the world. I think you've nailed it. Yeah. I just think we have to make a choice to come together. If we have the luxury of coming together, if we have that space, if we as leaders can, can go out there and start that, that will ripple out.

[00:43:43] Not everyone has that right now. I understand that. Like there are, there are people out there that don't have the luxury of coming together for various reasons, but I think if, if you do, then I think. That's the gift that you bring to the world community, being part of it, being connected to it, creating it, [00:44:00] helping people thrive within it.

[00:44:02] We've got to do that there. I don't see another way forward.

[00:44:06] Sabrina Marie Chase: I'm so curious because I think there are going to be all kinds of innovative ways. That we begin doing it, and I'm so curious, I want to see what that's going to look like.

[00:44:17] Jessica Paschke: I know, I hope it happens before my hundred years is up. I would love to see, or at least get a glimpse of, of what that looks like.

[00:44:26] Because I don't think there's one way. I think it's like a giant reimagining, and I can't wait to see what comes from it.

[00:44:33] Sabrina Marie Chase: Oh, I agree. I agree. And it feels good to know, even if you don't know at this moment exactly what you're doing here, or maybe you know some of it, but you don't know the full scope. I really think if you make your way into some form of community, somewhere with a structure that helps you work through to figure it out, you're going to be so much better.

[00:44:54] You're going to be so much better, and it's going to feel so much better. [00:45:00] And you're going to get to do what you came here for.

[00:45:04] Jessica Paschke: And you'll get the, the ability to not have to kick constantly. I love that story. I

[00:45:11] Sabrina Marie Chase: didn't know that.

[00:45:13] Jessica Paschke: Yeah. It always, he told me that years and years ago, it's always stuck with me.

[00:45:17] I think it's such an app metaphor for this moment, right? We're in the ocean. We can't see the boat. We don't know who's coming. We're going to have to save ourselves. We have to save ourselves and the only way we're going to save ourselves is together.

[00:45:30] Sabrina Marie Chase: You're absolutely right. I mean, I kind of wonder, I wonder if maybe some of the function of all the chaos we're seeing just as you said earlier, isn't to force us to make the next leap in, in evolution, which is together.

[00:45:44] It's

[00:45:45] Jessica Paschke: together. Oh, I wish we could do it differently. Don't you wish sometimes we could just flow and it was like we'd made different choices And this wasn't it, but this is it. This is what we're working with. And, and [00:46:00] that's why I think, like you said, we were born for these times to make it like, let's do this.

[00:46:05] So when is your event? When is it happening?

[00:46:08] Sabrina Marie Chase: It's February 8th and 9th. There is a link. We have a limited number of spots. Some of them have been taken, but. I'm just going to work with the assumption, all four of us, that the people who need to be there will be there. And the people who maybe can only be there a part of the time, there is an option if you want to buy recordings and materials.

[00:46:26] Because each of the presentations is going to come with materials. And do it yourself, you can do that. That is an option. But we want it to be available to everybody regardless. There's a limited number of spots. Many are filled, but we still have some openings and I just figure the people who need to be there or who need to get the record, the recordings they can work with will come.

[00:46:48] I trust in that we start late in the day. It's going to include people from all over the country, people from the West, the Pacific time zone, people from the mountain and [00:47:00] central time zones, people from the East. So if you're on the East coast, it starts kind of late one o'clock and it goes into the evening.

[00:47:07] But that makes it possible for people in Pacific and Mountain to come too. So it's going to be really diverse in terms of geography, which is something that tends not to happen. We tend to kind of cluster regionally. So we're trying to get past that. And it's going to basically offer a structured path through our map, giving people tools so they can go through a process.

[00:47:34] Um, a moment to allow spirit to tell them what's going to happen. The work I do guided divination influenced by you, by the way, I learned from you in our conversation so that they can figure out what they're being told through divination to get the astrological picture from Kadi. To get so much information about self care, being good to themselves, using energy [00:48:00] and visioning from Michaela and really critical, as you have talked about so beautifully here, how to work with our emotions without denying them.

[00:48:11] And that's what Beverly's going to bring. So we're going to move people through these two day process, and then we're going to offer for people who want it accountability options again. Nothing they have to pay for because, you know, this is us, there's going to be homework and they're going to have to do a lot of the work themselves.

[00:48:28] We're not telling you what to do. You're telling yourself and then you're, we'll just give you the tools to put in place what you need to do to sustain it. So this is our grand experiment. We'll see what happens. I am

[00:48:39] Jessica Paschke: so, I'm really curious. I can't wait. You'll have to come back on like with an update and tell us like how it floated.

[00:48:46] I can't, I can't wait. I love this experiment. I think there's so much potential here and I can't wait to hear, hear what happens. If folks can't make it to the event, how can they be in touch? Right. How can they [00:49:00] reach you?

[00:49:00] Sabrina Marie Chase: People can reach me at info at SabrinaMarieChase. com. Info at SabrinaMarieChase. com.

[00:49:09] If they have questions, um, they can follow the link, which I believe I sent you. If they know they want to do this, but they're not available on those days, they can pay 25 bucks and get recordings and probably more materials than they will ever want to see along with some homework assignments, most likely in order to do that work.

[00:49:31] And they will also have access to my expertise. They'll be able to email me and ask me questions. And I will answer, I'm really committed to this, you know, I will answer everyone. I will try to help everybody in whatever little way I can or point them towards some other resource or person if I can. There are options in terms of how to do this, but if you can come.

[00:49:57] Partly in person or totally in person. You can just go sign up [00:50:00] for free and then just show up and we're going to have a lot of small group work. So, okay, I should probably put this out here. So people know because they're extroverts and they're introverts. Almost all the workshop kind of work that I do and that my co many of my colleagues do involves one on one or small group interactions.

[00:50:19] So as a. Part of this process, you're going to be put in small groups to work immediately on the structures you're given and you're going to meet people and they're going to be maybe from two time zones away from you and that's going to happen multiple times. So this is our way, not only to help people process, but also to sneak in a little bit like just by showing up, we're going to create community and you can choose to follow up on that or not as you decide.

[00:50:49] Jessica Paschke: I love that. Anytime we can do that interconnectedness, it's like this beautiful, energetic spider web. Right. And I think that's the beauty of it. Sometimes it's uncertain because we see the whole [00:51:00] world happening and it's so loud and there's so much noise and we're connected to everything now. We're not just our own, our own little things.

[00:51:07] The magic lies in that we can connect in a way that we've never connected before. I love that. I think the small groups are a great idea. I love that. Well, I can't wait. Thank you. Bye.

[00:51:20] Sabrina Marie Chase: Excited to, I'm happy to come back and tell you what happens, what works and what doesn't. The things we never expected.

[00:51:27] Those are almost always the best things. The things that are the best things,

[00:51:31] Jessica Paschke: I would say, you have to just add a human in order to really see how it, how it's all going to work. So I can't, I can't wait for you. Thank you so much for taking time and being on today. I appreciate it.

[00:51:41] Sabrina Marie Chase: It was a joy. Anytime I can talk to you, especially anytime I can talk to you about tarot.

[00:51:47] Yeah, I'm interested.

[00:51:49] Jessica Paschke: I'd love to do this again. Thank you so much, Sabrina. Thank you everyone for tuning in today. Feel free to share your thoughts. Find us on social media, send us an email, let us [00:52:00] know what you think, and don't forget to leave a review. Thank you for tuning in. Thank you for listening to Reclaiming Our Spirit.

[00:52:08] To find out how I can help you reclaim your spirit, reach out to me at www. jessicapaschke. com. Leave me a message and I just may share how you reclaimed your spirit in the next episode.

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