Reclaiming the Strength of Authentic Narratives with Des Dobreva

[00:00:00] Des: I went to high school where I was bullied quite severely for about, about a year before I kind of decided no more, um, and took things into my own hands. And that's really what pushed me to start building communities, which funnily enough, Jess, I didn't realize until last year when I was kind of diving into my story and why I love community so much.

[00:00:24] I realized that I started building communities at 15 years old because I just had no proper, um, I had a couple of friends, but most of the people that I was surrounded by did not treat me well. And like I said, I was bullied. So I thought, well, what if I could build my own place where all the weird ones come together?

[00:00:48] Jessica: Your journey to the divine is an intimate exploration of self where you are both the seeker and the source of enlightenment. I, Jessica Paschke, invite you to break free from the ordinary, [00:01:00] to reforge your spiritual path with courage, curiosity, and audacity. Unleash the power of your spiritual connection, stepping into a purpose driven life free of have tos and shoulds.

[00:01:12] Join me on this profound exploration of rediscovery, where you'll not only redefine your own spiritual practice, but also inspire a collective awakening. Welcome to Reclaiming Our Spirit. Hi,

[00:01:30] and welcome back to reclaiming our spirit. I'm so excited that you're here today. We are going to dive right in and continue to explore this idea of story with an amazing guest. So she's referred to as the branding queen. Des Dobreva is a brand strategist and membership expert and TEDx speaker. Hello. Uh, she worked with businesses from over 50 industries and the most competitive markets in the world.

[00:01:56] And help them build profitable brands by going against [00:02:00] mainstream business. So now, you know, why we resonate so much does is recognized for her unconventional approach to branding because she dives really deep into the psychology and the neuroscience of things. And then she uses disruptive tactics to create innovation instead of following in other people's footsteps.

[00:02:17] It's absolute magic. Thank you so much for being here. Des. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited. I'm so excited too. I've known Des for a while. And as soon as we kind of jumped in and I started doing this podcast, I was like, Oh, Des has got to come on. She's got an amazing story. So it works out really brilliantly with this episode.

[00:02:37] But before we, we get into story, let's do spark of joy over the last week, Des. What has brought you joy?

[00:02:46] Des: My cats always, but also, um, one of my best friends, Guna is actually visiting me for the week because I'm doing a photo shoot and she's here to support me, creative, direct everything. And I'm just feeling really [00:03:00] happy and excited about it.

[00:03:01] So.

[00:03:02] Jessica: I love that when our people are there and you're diving into your zone of genius and you get to create together. Oh, there's, it just kind of lights up. And. By the time you listen to this, I will have already done this, but I get to meet Des in person in the UK at the end of March.

[00:03:21] Des: I can't believe it's happening.

[00:03:23] Jessica: I know. I can't believe it's happening either. I'm so excited. I get to meet Des and Melissa Amos, which you heard from earlier in the season in person for the first time ever. I'm really excited. Des has got this amazing mastermind called Rain and we're all gathering together and putting our. creative awesomeness into one space and I, I can't wait to see what comes out of it.

[00:03:45] It'll be a game changer. There's, there's no one else on the planet I would rather spend a Mercury retrograde with then

[00:03:52] Des: this group of people. That is the best compliment I've ever been given. I

[00:03:58] Jessica: love it. So [00:04:00] we were talking about stories in the last episode and the difference between Tall tales, which are stories that we tell ourselves.

[00:04:09] Maybe they're based on our personal experience. Maybe they're based on something that was true at one point, but isn't anymore. And there are these kinds of stories that limit us in some way from reaching our full of potential. But then we have our story with a capital S and the story is really about knowing ourselves, really knowing ourselves and appreciating the fact that we've been through so much and the wisdom that we have gathered and we have collected along the way.

[00:04:37] has value and worth, not only for ourselves, but for the collective around us. And Des has one of the most powerful stories I've heard. And this is why I was like, Oh, she's got to come on for this. Y'all just wait. She is now just be yourself where she is now. And, and everything she's gone through to get to this point [00:05:00] is a true reflection and how she tells it is story with a capital S.

[00:05:06] So Des, not to put any pressure on you, but tell us a little bit about your story. And, and also how it's evolved and changed over the years.

[00:05:18] Des: Hmm. I come from Bulgaria. That's the fact about me that people want to know first because everyone always tries to guess the accent. To be fair, most folks who come from Bulgaria have a little bit more of a harsh accent, but I've lived abroad for a long time.

[00:05:33] I actually had my 10 year, um, anniversary, which is bittersweet from leaving Bulgaria just last year, end of last year. I think it's September, 2023. It was 10 years since I left. So I was 22 when I left Bulgaria to, uh, to go study abroad. Uh, You know, I was raised by a middle class family, considered in Bulgaria, it would not be considered a middle class family, uh, in the west.

[00:05:56] It would probably consider it like how the hell did you survive [00:06:00] in the west? So that was an interesting comparison I could draw once, once I left. We didn't have much. I come from a family where my parents were the first ones who actually graduated high school. They even went on to, to university, they studied medicine.

[00:06:14] So they're both doctors, they're both physiotherapists, which, you know, for most people who say that your instant idea is, Whoa, okay, that's such a respected profession. They must be doing very well, paid well. And unfortunately that is not the case in Eastern Europe and the professions that should be the most respected and paid the most are actually quite the opposite, which is, I always found really sad, but you know, it's what they love doing.

[00:06:38] So. I think part of why I love helping people so much, even though I never wanted to be a doctor and they themselves were like, Des, this is not for you. I, I'm kind of connecting the dots these last few months. I've been thinking about it a lot. And I think that's where wanting to help people comes from for me just in very different ways.

[00:06:57] But yeah, I was born and raised there in a small town [00:07:00] in the, um, in the north of Bulgaria. I went to high school where I was bullied. fight severely for about, about a year before I kind of decided no more, um, and took things into my own hands. And that's really what pushed me to start building communities, which funnily enough, Jess, I didn't realize until last year when I was kind of diving into my story and why I love community so much.

[00:07:25] I realized that I started building communities at 15 years old, because I just had no proper, um, I had a couple of friends, but most of the people that I was surrounded by did not treat me well. And like I said, I was bullied. So I thought, well, what if I could build my own place where all the weird ones come together?

[00:07:44] Isn't it funny how that thread continued throughout my whole life? Up to my business where I now do the same thing.

[00:07:51] Jessica: No, that doesn't, I was bullied in school as well. And now my love language is creating communities where people are accepted that are actually welcoming. So [00:08:00] this doesn't surprise me at all.

[00:08:01] It makes total sense.

[00:08:02] Des: Yeah. I just took me, I just realized it because I'm slow. So. So that worked out. I, I remember, uh, we had this platform back in the day called IRC. It was like a chat-based platform. And I, I put together this channel and for some reason people wanted to join and we will talk about all kinds of things like books and Harry Potter and RAs, because I was one of those people

[00:08:26] And it was, it was all of the, all of the things that we wouldn't discuss in front of other people. It's cool. And that's kind kind of how I started being. I wouldn't say popular at all, because I don't really think I ever was popular, funnily enough, when I was in high school. That's kind of how I started getting to know a lot of people in my hometown.

[00:08:45] And that's how I started having, I wouldn't say friendships. I think it was more of superficial connections, but it offers you a layer of protection almost, where you feel like, well, I can go out of my house and people know me and treat me okay, because they know me from online, [00:09:00] which also kind of became a thread later on in my life as I started my business, I guess.

[00:09:06] And so that's kind of improved my quality of life till I went to study in another town and started to be cyber bullied when I was 19, it started right after my 18th birthday and it was the worst thing I've ever been through. Um, that's what my TEDx talk was about actually, how I survived that. It only really stopped.

[00:09:27] Right before I started my business about seven years ago, but it went on for years and I gave it power because I paid attention to it. And I, I responded to it because I was very insecure at the time. I wasn't exactly brought up to be confident. Unfortunately. Because I think as sad as it sounds, I think nobody in my family really ever was very confident, at least not my parents, especially being doctors in Bulgaria is tough.

[00:09:55] When you're not valued, you don't feel confident, even though confidence should be an inside job. [00:10:00] But that took me a long time to realize. So at the time I really gave my power away. It was literally like, yeah, take it, take all of it. I'm fine with nothing. Turns out I wasn't fine with nothing, so took me to some dark places.

[00:10:14] I became suicidal for a while, that was not fun. And I can talk about it now without any emotions because it's been so long, but. For all of my twenties, I couldn't talk about it without crying or getting emotional. Obviously, I chose to be here and to stay alive, which is good, ultimately, because I am mostly for my mom, really.

[00:10:34] I think that's really the reason. And then Now I realize, well, I was put on this earth to make a difference. Now I know that, but when you're 19 years old, you're not, you're not thinking in those ways. You know, that's something that has really shaped my story. It has really shaped me as a person and how I want to help others.

[00:10:53] What I stand for, what I stand against and. I think one of the most interesting things people usually find [00:11:00] in my story is that despite the fact that this happened to me and it was all online, um, and at the time social media was so new. So it wasn't that common to be cyberbullied, you know, it's not like I was Monica Lewinsky, but it was not, it was, she actually has a TEDx talk about how she was the first ever victim of cyberbullying on a global scale.

[00:11:19] So it wasn't that, but it was still pretty bad because they would talk me and they would know where I was and it was terrifying. But The interesting thing is that it also pushed me to stand up. up for free speech more because I realized this could have not affected me at all. I actually, funnily enough, looking back, I believe in people's right to be exactly who they want to be online, offline.

[00:11:43] They should be able to say what they want to say. Words have consequences, of course, there's that. So say it, but just so you know. A lot of people find that really weird because, well, don't you want this type of speech to be banned? Don't. And the way [00:12:00] I see it is, free speech is free speech always. Not just when it feels convenient for us.

[00:12:06] Mm-Hmm. . And that's one of the things that's got me in hot water over issues because people are, but no, but then there's hate speech and there's this and that. And the thing is, you know, who decides what hate speech is? There's a lot of people who think that just because you share an opinion different to theirs, that's hate speech.

[00:12:20] And then you shouldn't be allowed to talk. So. That's also one of the things that's really shaped how I see the world and how I see people. And it also helped me realize that people are so multi dimensional and so complex, even when they don't seem like they are, they are.

[00:12:34] Jessica: Yeah.

[00:12:35] Des: And you know that saying when someone says or does something and people say, Oh, that tells me everything about this person.

[00:12:42] I hate that. Nothing tells me everything about, and I've said that myself and it's so basic and so superficial,

[00:12:49] Jessica: but our stories, it's not true because our stories are so complicated.

[00:12:53] Des: There's so

[00:12:53] Jessica: many facets that make up who we are, so many layers of being layers. And if we don't [00:13:00] understand. Who we are ourselves than how we're moving through the world.

[00:13:04] We have no idea how we're affecting people. We have no idea. Like you have to know who you are in order to be a functioning human being, I think.

[00:13:12] Des: Yeah, and that's the thing. That's what I've learned is that I think when you're in a, in your little cocoon of resentment, which a lot of people were in, it's so easy to think that, oh, that tells me everything about that person and we decide they are, um, they're a bad person.

[00:13:28] But the thing is, most of the time people are not bad. Um, or evil, they're just unaware and yeah, okay. Unawareness of course leads to ignorance, leads to yes, harmful behavior. True. But I think in one of those cases that we can allow the person to see their errors and change and in the other case, okay, well, if it's just someone who's evil, fine, I don't care.

[00:13:51] But a lot of the times we, we decide. What, who someone is based on one interaction online, based on one thing they said, one [00:14:00] opinion they have, especially these days when everything has become so divided in places like the States in places like all of the West really has become so divided. And you see someone who, for instance, is a Democrat or a conservative and you go, Oh, you're conservative.

[00:14:15] That tells me every, really? It tells you everything. We are more similar than we are different. This is what I'm noticing.

[00:14:23] Jessica: You can't sum up. A person's existence in one sentence or one defining adjective, and you're right. How you move through the world and what you say has consequences and, and good luck.

[00:14:38] Des: Good luck. It does have consequences. Yeah. But you know, I've said so many stupid things. I'm only 33 now. I, I was in my twenties for most of my business. When I. Really exploded online and lots of people suddenly started caring and scrutinizing everything. I say it's not a An easy place to be pushes you either to [00:15:00] not want to grow at all, or in my case, it pushes you to really want to evolve and learn.

[00:15:05] Are there any harmful behaviors here? Are there any opinions I hold that maybe I should think twice about reconsider? Um, it also made me double down on other things, but I've said a lot of stupid things. And I think I'm just very blessed with the fact that I'm surrounded by at least the majority of people around me allow me to grow.

[00:15:24] They allow me to make mistakes without judging me. Without deciding, well, that tells me everything about who she is. That's big.

[00:15:33] Jessica: But there's a reason for that too, though, because your work really involves seeing the whole person. It involves telling the story and being authentic in how we tell the story and empowering, empowering people through how they tell their story.

[00:15:50] And so I know you've talked about this before, but there used to be a way that you told your story that you actually shifted.

[00:15:56] Des: Over the

[00:15:57] Jessica: years, why, what was that kind of turning point for you? [00:16:00]

[00:16:00] Des: My business is the reason for that, because when I started my business, I didn't feel confident enough, um, or secure enough or experienced enough, to be honest, to work with folks who have, have already are already running a super successful business or already super aware of everything they need to do.

[00:16:17] And I'm just here really to support you. Um, and help you grow. I wanted to work with people who are just starting their businesses. And to be honest, I still do to a huge extent. It is the work I enjoy the most. Um, I'm happy to work with people who are already doing extremely well and help them scale, but I just love seeing someone go from, I don't know what the hell I'm doing to, whoa, I'm, I'm doing amazing.

[00:16:39] I built this business that. Secured my livelihood. I can provide for me. It's just amazing, you know, but in the beginning I didn't, I wasn't even thinking too much about it. So I started sharing my story and one good thing that it did is, and I shared it the way I did it here. And one good thing that it did is it got me a TEDx talk.

[00:16:58] The TEDx talk was actually the [00:17:00] first place I shared it in full. Then I've I've made a couple of posts, but I was a bit. And believe it or not, scared, I guess, to share it. It was a big jump. Now you're, now you're,

[00:17:11] Jessica: you're sharing it outside the zone of people who would normally find you. Right. That's really vulnerable.

[00:17:17] Des: It was terrifying. It was 700 people sitting there staring at me being like, Ooh, this looks interesting. I wonder what she's going to talk about. And everyone thought I would talk about business. And then here I am. Cyberbullied at 19 and people were crying and I was crying after and oh my God, it was so crazy.

[00:17:34] Um, and it was one of the first times I'd been on stage too. So this is 2018 and they didn't even prepare me to be like, I love them. They're great. But I practiced once and I had two weeks to come together with my talk. And it was a. 20 minute talk. So, you know, we, we winged it and it went great. When you guys watch the video, you will not even recognize me because I was so nervous.

[00:17:56] And at the time I was like, I'm not nervous at all. This is great. This is [00:18:00] fine. This is exactly what I wanted, but I was dying inside and you can tell by my voice. I talk very slowly. But yeah, it shifted because I shifted slightly the person I wanted to work with. I went from wanting to work with people who have not started their business, don't even know what business they want to have to people who have started their business and who are just struggling to stay consistent, move forward, and they really crave stability and to fall back in love with the work they do because it's so easy to become resentful for your own business when things are not.

[00:18:32] Going the way you want them to go. My deal client shifted in my business and I thought, okay, well, I need to shift my origin story because I call it the origin story or the brand story. And because I realized, well, that's a fantastic story that can inspire so many people, but from a business perspective, it's not, doesn't actually have anything to do with the person I want to work with.

[00:18:53] It doesn't even talk about business. Um, I had made it at the time to be about me using social media to find my [00:19:00] voice after I was cyber bullied. So that was my story and it made sense when I was a social media manager when I was freelancing, but when I started the business and I wanted to build my own brand and everything and help people with their brands, I was like, okay, this needs to change.

[00:19:14] Because when you are in business, your origin story needs to speak to your ideal client exactly the way they are exactly where they are right now. So, mine was so specific, you know, I was cyber bullied almost to death. I had lost my voice and I found it on social media. My clients weren't feeling like that.

[00:19:34] And our idea, some of them feel like it's not safe to be visible for sure. But the biggest thing for them is they want, they crave stability. They crave to feel that passion for their business. Again, you know, they crave to build a brand that gives them the respect they want and the respect they deserve because they've spent so much time becoming amazing at what they do.

[00:19:55] And they're just not recognized for it.

[00:19:57] Jessica: Yeah. But look at, look at your [00:20:00] amazing group of people. I mean, and it's a large group of people who interact and, and really it's the amount of trust that you share and they share with you is, is phenomenal. It is such a diverse group of people and they have really unique stories.

[00:20:15] Yeah. Really unique stories. Like, Oh my God, the things they have overcome, every time I read, I'm like, it just blows my mind. And I don't think that that would have happened had you not embraced your own story of having to overcome.

[00:20:31] Des: I think that's true. Because no one's going to

[00:20:33] Jessica: trust someone who doesn't understand what it's like to really struggle on multiple levels.

[00:20:41] It's a really interesting thing that starts to happen when you start to share your story in an authentic way. Yeah. Nodding over. overly polished. And I know you were talking about how you shifted your origin story to talk more about it. There are so many parts to our stories, right? [00:21:00] I think that that's what people don't understand is, is you're not changing anything.

[00:21:04] You're not ignoring the previous story and you're not making up the current story. You're just moving the spotlight to highlight another area. Yeah. That's

[00:21:11] Des: it. I'm pulling something out, something different out of my overall life story because we have, we don't have one story, which is the story of a life.

[00:21:21] I think that's where people, um, get misunderstand this, especially when it comes to business. But even in general, we are adult human beings. We've lived for more than 10 years on this planet. We've been through so much. We've survived so much. We've, you know, Overcome so much, maybe not yet overcome so much.

[00:21:37] There's still so much to come, no matter how old you are, you know, um, and what we do is we can just I love how you said, I put the spotlight on something else. What I usually say is you, you pick another milestone. You pick another. Thing you've overcome and you build the new origin story around that. The other stories that you may have, my story has changed three or four times since I started my [00:22:00] business.

[00:22:00] I put the spotlight on different things since I started my business because it makes sense because I evolve and I overcome more things and I become more and I do more. And it's just, it makes sense. You're not going to have the same business origin story forever. But yeah, it doesn't make the previous stories any less valuable.

[00:22:18] I will still go on stage and I'll still talk about them. I will still go and talk about them on my social media. It's just that if I'm interviewed in a business, in the business realm, whether that's a podcast, whether that's a, maybe I'm speaking on stage, I will choose the story that more strategically aligns with where my ideal clients are right now.

[00:22:39] Jessica: In your own personal life. And then when you're working with other people, how do you help people see the difference between a tall tail, that's like a limiting belief, because we were talking about this before we got on the one thing that annoys me. So much in the spiritual world is that's just the story you're telling yourself.

[00:22:57] Well, yeah. Okay, sure. [00:23:00] There are those tall tales that we tell ourselves because we went through something and that's how our mind has decided to tell that to keep ourselves safe and we don't need them anymore. And then there's like, that phrase can also really diminish the power in our story. So how do you tell the difference and how do you help other people figure out that difference for themselves?

[00:23:21] Des: Honestly, it's not easy. And this is one of the things and I, people maybe expect a different answer, but I don't know if this is hell, maybe it's my lack of expertise because I'm not a life coach, but I would never meet someone. And 5 days later be like, oh, this is just a story you're telling yourself, or I would never look at a post from someone where they say something.

[00:23:44] And I say, well, that's just how can I know that? I don't know this person. I know. So that's 1 of the reasons why I am so passionate about working with people for prolonged periods of time. That's why. When you join my membership, there's a six month minimum commitment, because I'm [00:24:00] not here to give you superficial crap instead of advice and be like, ah, but that's just a story because maybe it is, but I don't know for sure.

[00:24:07] I need to get to know you. I need to get to know how you think. I need to get to know your worldview. That is going to reveal so much to me. But It's like you, you have to peel off all these different layers while you're getting to know the person. And that's not going to happen over the span of a week or a month or even two months.

[00:24:23] It takes time because also when people first start working with you or even become friends with you, it doesn't have to be business. They're not immediately going to reveal everything about themselves and how they think and who they are and what drives them. You know, you're going to have to also put in the work as a friend or as a mentor and, and understand while sharing how you think as well.

[00:24:45] For me, that's what determines how I can tell a few months in. Oh, yeah, it's quite easy to tell because now I understand what drives you. Now I understand what your goals are. Now I can see why you're not achieving those goals, and I can see mentally what's [00:25:00] preventing you from going there. And honestly, It's sometimes it's small things.

[00:25:03] I can be having a conversation with someone. They'll say something and I'm like, Oh, interesting word. They use right there. Yeah. Um, and they just completely went over it. Didn't catch it at all. They're five sentences later. And I'm still thinking about that word. They said, and I'm like, that reveals to me that they probably don't think it's safe to be visible or, or something like they probably don't think that they're good enough.

[00:25:26] She probably thinks that other people are so much more experienced than her. That's a big one. Yeah, I was talking to a client recently, and she said it in passing. She didn't even realize she'd said it. We were talking about what she should charge for this program. This woman has spent 20 years building her expertise.

[00:25:44] She has a stellar, like so many case studies, a stellar record of helping people. And, and the funny thing is she helps them break through their own limiting beliefs, but we can't do that for ourselves. So we don't see our blind spots, you know,

[00:25:56] Jessica: never.

[00:25:59] Des: She [00:26:00] feels so guilty about it. So she was talking to me.

[00:26:02] She was like, you know, I do that for other people. Why can't I do this for myself? She said, I feel like a failure. Because I'm only making this much money in my business and look at what my clients I've helped them. I've helped them break through all these mental barriers. Say, I need someone. I need a me.

[00:26:19] I was like, I was like, um, having a conversation with her and I was like, how? So you're telling me that you. Should be the only person on the planet who suddenly sees their own blind spots when nobody can do that. But nobody can look in the mirror and be like, okay, blind spots, blind spots, blind spots, and you can make the whole list.

[00:26:39] And now, you know, and you go and fix it. That doesn't work. You need a mentor. You need a friend, you need someone else. Um, and also you need someone to be Frank, who is qualified to see them because. Right. Because their tall

[00:26:53] Jessica: tales can influence your tall tales and it can go down the drain very quickly.

[00:26:57] Yeah.

[00:26:57] Des: And that's a cycle of doom. [00:27:00] So I was like, do you honestly believe that you have to become the first person on the planet who sees their own blind spots in order for you to make the big money and in order for you to feel confident in what you're doing? She was like, Whoa, I know. And we started having a conversation.

[00:27:14] And she asked me, so do you really believe that? Do you really think that it's impossible? And I said, you know, nothing is impossible, but why would you spend years and years of your time trying to figure this out when you can just do the thing scared? And when you can actually realize I'm never gonna by myself, see my blind spots and I can still do.

[00:27:33] And I can still do what I want, I can still charge what I want, I have the experience, I have the expertise, I have the, all the qualifications, I have the case studies. She has every single piece, except the confidence to put herself out there. That was massively helpful.

[00:27:52] Jessica: Well, it all comes back to this idea of knowing yourself.

[00:27:55] If you blow your story off and say, that's just the story I'm telling myself. But you don't take time to [00:28:00] sit with it and figure out what, what's coming up, why it's coming up, what you learned. I guarantee one, that will repeat itself, that pattern will repeat itself. But two, you're right, it takes time.

[00:28:11] There's layers. You're not going to see them all by yourself. No. You're just not. And people believe they have to. I know they do. Especially people who are helping other people do something similar. They feel like, well, how can I be authentic and not be able to do this for myself? Well, a doctor doesn't do surgery on themselves.

[00:28:31] Can

[00:28:31] Des: you imagine? Oh yeah, let me just open up my skull and operate on my brain.

[00:28:38] Jessica: It's not going to work. It's not going to work.

[00:28:40] Des: You can try. It'd be fun. But

[00:28:43] Jessica: no, you know, this is the thing. And also,

[00:28:46] Des: like, I think the worst or the best part, depending on how you choose to see it, is when you have these conversations with, with them, with someone and the solution is so simple, right?

[00:28:56] Well, yeah, yeah, of course you don't have to see all your blind spots. [00:29:00] Huge aha moment. Then they feel like, Oh my God, I should have already known this. Why did I just have, then they feel guilty for having an aha moment from such a simple conversation, which is way simpler. simpler than the conversations they have with their own clients to help them break through their own limiting beliefs.

[00:29:15] So now there's all this guilt and now it's like, Oh my God, I just embarrassed myself. Why? Oh, she must think I'm stupid. And then that begins and then that stops them from putting themselves out there. So it's, there's so many tall tales, like, like you call them that we tell ourselves. And honestly, this may sound strange, but.

[00:29:33] Or just be too simplistic, but when I started my business, I didn't think I wasn't exactly swimming in choices. I didn't have parents to fall back on. I didn't have like all that family support or loans I could take, or, you know, the, the normal things that if you're born in the Western world, you have access to that you usually you take for granted because you don't even realize other people don't have that.

[00:29:57] Um, you know, something as simple as unemployment [00:30:00] benefit, you know, you can't survive on that in Eastern Europe. It's not possible. So that's out of the question. So when I started my business, it was. Either or, either I make this work or I know I go back home and begin to live with my parents and I failed.

[00:30:14] And I take a few years to regroup and figure out what I wanna do because I, nobody wanted to hire me, first of all. So it's not like I could have found a job. I applied for multiple jobs. I got rejected from every single one. . This was in Denmark. Um, that's where I went. When I left Bulgaria when I was 22. I went, went to, um, do my master's degree in Denmark.

[00:30:34] And I found a part time job for a while, but that paid me, I believe it paid me 800 euros per month with, which I don't know if anyone's lived in Denmark. That's not going to cut it. It's not great. Um, it paid, I think it paid my rent and that was it, which is why I started freelancing. So I didn't have choices.

[00:30:53] It was one choice. The other thing for me was not a choice. For me, there's never, ever been a choice other than you [00:31:00] succeed. Period. And I think when you have choices and when you have different avenues that you can pursue, even if they're less desirable, that makes you complacent that. And you don't even realize that that's what's stopping you from growing.

[00:31:14] You have this cushion of safety and security, even if it's a less convenient cushion, but you have it. And so if you have that, Oh, my God, I really respect people who have all these choices who still are able to have the some, somehow create the determination to push themselves and build something incredibly successful.

[00:31:36] I don't know if I could have done that.

[00:31:38] Jessica: Well, I think it's all about your agitation point, right? Like something in your life has to be agitated for you to see that it's not going to work, to get to that point where you're like, wow, I can't stay here. This isn't working. I don't know where I'm going, but I can't stay here.

[00:31:54] And I think that's when that turning point in our story happens and when we have the opportunity to tell our [00:32:00] story in new ways because of that agitation point. Like, think about that. If you'd gone to Denmark and it had all kind of worked out in a way that was comfortable, you wouldn't have had that agitation point.

[00:32:12] There would have been no turning point in your story. Then all of a sudden it's like, Oh, if you view it like a, like the character is just uncomfortable enough

[00:32:21] Des: or very uncomfortable,

[00:32:24] Jessica: wildly uncomfortable that something has to, to change, something has to be different. Because you can't stay where you are.

[00:32:32] I mean, you could, but that's not, I

[00:32:35] Des: literally couldn't, it was just, you know, I think for a lot of people that is true, you can stay where you are. I just, and that's why I have so much respect for them when they choose not to. I think that's, I think people don't give themselves enough credit. I see so many people who had all the safety of a full time job.

[00:32:53] You know, they were making a good salary. They maybe have a spouse who also, so it's a dual income household. And they [00:33:00] decide to be like, Nope, I want more for myself. I want to help people on a bigger scale. And they start a business. Starting a business is insane. Okay. Starting a business, you have to be a lunatic in the best ways.

[00:33:15] Yes. But, but to be like, I'm going to be solely responsible for how much money I bring for my whole time. My, which by the way, the time piece is terrible. It's really responsible for your schedule, for when you work, when you don't work, let me tell you. So to choose that when you have choices and safety and security is mind blowing to me.

[00:33:36] You know, I wonder, I do wonder if my story had worked out differently. Would I have chosen this? Who knows? I have this thing inside of me that is always burning. There's always like, what's next? What's next? How do we grow it now? How do we grow more? How do we serve more? And it just, it keeps burning. I don't know if it will ever just go out.

[00:33:57] And if we're being honest, like when [00:34:00] I was in Denmark and when I decided I'm going to start a business, I'm going to start a business and I'm going to show them all. That, that was my motivation. I just wanted to prove everyone wrong. I wanted to prove my teachers wrong, my parents wrong, everyone around me wrong, because I was being, I wouldn't say I was bullied in Denmark, but the disrespect didn't stop, uh, when you're an Eastern European and you go to, uh, uh, well, anywhere in the West, but especially to a place like Scandinavia.

[00:34:27] I love Denmark. I love Sweden. I love all these places, but, and it's not that they're doing it on purpose, but people look down on you. Um, people see you as less. They absolutely do took me a while to realize that when I was there, I didn't see it. I was so young. I was so naive. I was so excited to be having all these new experiences and meeting all these new people.

[00:34:51] And I couldn't read people at the time. Now I can and looking back, Oh my God, the things I missed. So I was just so my, my huge part [00:35:00] of my stories, I just wanted to prove everyone wrong. That's

[00:35:03] Jessica: huge though, just think of that, they're all putting a story on you, and they're saying no, this is your story, and you have to have the courage and the strength enough to say that is not my story, thank you very much, and I'm going to create my story, and then I'm going to tell you all my story, and tell you how wrong you were about trying to put your story on me.

[00:35:25] Des: On. That's a whatever way to put it. Yeah. Yeah. I just wanted to shift my, I I have this thing where I, I simply will not, you will not let you control my narrative. My narrative is my narrative. You don't get to put your paws on it. No, it's my, my paws. Go on it and my cat's pause. That's all. And up until you just said that, I didn't actually see it like that.

[00:35:45] But yes, it's so difficult when you are living a life where everyone else is. Putting it in a box and shaping box and shaping your story and being like, so this is who you are because at first you're inclined to believe them because [00:36:00] it's the easier thing to do. It's like, well, yeah, okay. That's who I am.

[00:36:04] But you live like that for, for a while, a couple of months, a couple of years, depending on your tolerance. And my tolerance is not great. And after a while, you're just like, Hmm, maybe that's not my story. And it's like the movie Inception, right? When the seed is planted at first, any seed of doubt is in there.

[00:36:23] You have to pursue it. You have no choice now. It's going to, it's going to burn a hole in your brain. And that's how I felt.

[00:36:29] Jessica: Yeah. That's huge. Looking at your story, reflecting on your story, and understanding your story. is healing and it can be incredibly powerful tool for business or really anything you do, even if you don't own your own business, even just in your career or whatever you're pursuing.

[00:36:46] How do you suggest people figure out The story to tell. Now, I know you said before, like, you've got to figure out where you're, whomever you're talking to, right, where your audience is at. But some people will be like, well, I don't have, I don't have a story worth [00:37:00] telling. How do you start to take that apart?

[00:37:02] Like, how do you, what are some tips for people who are like, Oh, I don't know that I have a story worth telling. How do you look, look at that? And where would you even begin?

[00:37:11] Des: Probably. More than half of my clients, and I've worked with thousands of people when we, especially back in the day, when I had a Dumfries offer, where I wrote people's origin stories for them, the way I loved doing that, the way I did that was we would get on a 60, 40 to 60 minute call.

[00:37:29] And all that call would be is I would ask them one or two questions and they will just talk. And it's surprising how much people want to say when you ask the right questions. Yeah. And every single time they would get on the call and say, listen, Jess. Okay, I know that we're here for you to write my origin story, but I just need to tell you it's not going to be that exciting.

[00:37:50] It's not going to be that interesting. It's not like I've been through that much. So, it's going to probably be really tough for us to figure out what the hell to even talk about and I was like, [00:38:00] give me an hour every single time they would leave the call thinking. Seeing themselves in a whole different light.

[00:38:08] That's what your story does when you're not even aware of it. When you become aware of who you are through your story, you just go, oh, I am amazing. I have a story worth telling. So the best thing I will say is. It's we go back to the blind spots again. Sometimes you're just not capable. Maybe capable is not the right word, but you're too close to it.

[00:38:28] Um, and it's very hard to put that distance between you and the story enough for you to see how interesting it really is and how interesting you really are. So. Tell it to someone, honestly, find a friend, find a freaking stranger on the internet. I don't care. Tell it to you. Well, I was going to say, tell it to your cat, but they can't reflect anything back yet.

[00:38:48] So, um, tell it to someone who can speak and just see what they say, because I can always tell you to, okay, make a list of all the things you've overcome, no [00:39:00] matter how small. You know, make a list of how you reacted, make a list of where you are now. And that can sometimes help the person connect the dots and be like, Whoa, I've actually overcome some stuff, but nothing is more valuable than telling your story to someone else, even the things that you find insignificant.

[00:39:17] Jessica: Yeah.

[00:39:17] Des: For example, I had a client back in the day who helps people declutter their houses. And she was like, that's not that interesting. How am I? And it's so funny to me because what's her name? Marie Kondo. Yes. Uh, is she not that interesting? Come on. Um, and I was, and I was telling her, okay, you know, just tell me what, what got you into this?

[00:39:38] Why, why decluttering? That must be interesting for you. I, I doubt that you just find organization sexy. I mean, what's, what's behind it? You know, there's always something there. Turns out this woman like overcame this massive divorce that she went through. She had like five kids. It was a nightmare. They were married for more than 20 years.

[00:39:59] He cheated. It [00:40:00] was, it was, there was financial abuse. It was a nightmare. And she overcame that by literally doing that, finding ways to organize her life, decluttering her house. And it was a beautiful story. And until she told it to me, she never made the connection because the divorce and that, you know, And I think that's what I'm really good at is just seeing the connection.

[00:40:20] And that's what we cannot do for ourselves because we're so close to the damn story. It's hard to see our own value here. Yeah, it's

[00:40:28] Jessica: hard to see our own value, but it's easier for someone sitting across from us, especially someone who's really listening to say, Oh my gosh, that's, that's huge. And you're like, Oh, I guess it is.

[00:40:41] Des: And you know what, if, if someone is listening to this and is like, there's no way I'm going to go and tell my friend this or my, fine, honestly, go anonymously on Reddit, go anonymously on Quora, Reddit, great platform to do something like this. And most people there are anonymous anyway. Here are what strangers [00:41:00] have to say, because let me tell you, I've seen people do that on Reddit and share things that they deem too vulnerable to share, even with their loved ones.

[00:41:09] And the support I've seen and the interesting things reflected back to them have blown my mind. The internet can be And it's big for me to say that after what I've been through, but the internet can be an incredible place where beautiful things grow.

[00:41:24] Jessica: 100%. We're really true connections with people who really see you and get you, interestingly enough.

[00:41:32] Yeah, it is a place where amazing things can flourish. So if people are sitting here and they're thinking, okay, um, I need to look at my story. I want to empower myself through understanding my story, all the parts of my story. What would be a question that you could present to them that would help them take this one step further?

[00:41:54] That would help take the podcast off the iPhone or wherever they're listening and into [00:42:00] real life? Yeah.

[00:42:01] Des: Do you know, there's a question that I like to ask people and maybe we can ask that. Ourselves, just for us, what didn't kill you, how

[00:42:13] Jessica: powerful is that? What didn't kill you? My twenties.

[00:42:20] Des: Lots of stories here.

[00:42:24] You can, you can probably sit down and make a list of a hundred things in your life that could have killed you. Literally killed you, driven you to depression, driven you to not want to live anymore. But you know what? Some of them you didn't even notice. You just kind of overcame them without realizing.

[00:42:41] And some of them you knew this was big. It is big that I'm still here. Like I know with the cyber bullying, there were so many other things. There were things in my family. There were things in how I was treated at home. There were things that were done to me by other people that could have killed me.

[00:42:55] Jessica: Mm hmm.

[00:42:56] Des: But they didn't, and every single one of them is a [00:43:00] whole separate story of its own, because I see humans as a universe of stories, like, each of us is a whole universe, and there's probably thousands, not even hundreds, thousands of stories. So, I think it can only help you help us all of us to, to try and figure out.

[00:43:18] More and more and more and more of them, yeah.

[00:43:20] Jessica: Yes. Imagine

[00:43:23] Des: like 30, 40, 50, depending on how old we are. I plan to live to 120. I don't know about you guys. I love it. Um, so I'll, I'll put my body in the machine. I'm fine. Um, but, and my cats also, I want to definitely do the same, but. I think that by that time, we still probably will not have figured out all of the stories, all of the things that we've overcome, all the things that could have killed us.

[00:43:49] But if we start now, at least we'll have hundreds, if not thousands of beautiful stories to tell because we formed them in our minds. Because you can't tell it until you've made the connection and [00:44:00] formed it in your mind.

[00:44:01] Jessica: I love that. I love that. It's so true. Des, thank you so much for being here with us today.

[00:44:06] How can people find you? for having

[00:44:08] Des: me. People can find me by wishing. Making a wish to the universe and I appear.

[00:44:16] Jessica: Like magic.

[00:44:18] Des: You can find me in two ways. You can either go and type the branding queen in Google and I'll pop up as the first few results. Or you can find me as desdobreva, D E S D O B R E V A on all social media platforms.

[00:44:31] Jessica: I love it. Thank you again for being here and y'all thank you so much for tuning in and I would love to hear your answers. What didn't kill me? Send them via email. That's a huge question. Send them to me via email, share them on social media and tag us. But, uh, we want to know what is your story. All right, y'all have a beautiful week.

[00:44:55] Thank you for listening to reclaiming our spirit to find out how I can help you [00:45:00] reclaim your spirit. Reach out to me at www. jessicapaschke. com. Leave me a message and I just may share how you reclaimed your spirit in the next episode.